“I’m not a Trump supporter in any way, shape or form. I’ve had the opportunity to have him on my show more than once–I’ve said no, every time. I don’t want to help him. I’m not interested in helping him.” This is how Joe Rogan responded when asked if he would have the now-President-elect Donald Trump on his show in a 2022 interview. Rogan, a comedian and UFC commentator, didn’t want Trump’s prescence on his podcast to directly or indirectly help his candidacy. Two years later, however, Rogan would be hosting Trump just weeks before the 2024 election before eventually endorsing him.

Trump’s media strategy during his campaign heavily relied on podcast appearances. In addition to the “Joe Rogan Experience,” Trump was also a guest on “This Past Weekend” with Theo Von, “Flagrant” with Andrew Schulz and Akaash Singh, and “The Lex Fridman Podcast.” Meanwhile, Trump’s opponent–Democratic nominee and Vice President Kamala Harris–took a more traditional approach to her media outings. In addition to appearances on CNN and MSNBC, Harris was interviewed on 60 Minutes and a highly-publicized outing on Fox News. Trump, on the other hand, didn’t do any interviews with confrontational outlets and skipped 60 Minutes, becoming the first presidential nominee from either of the two major parties to do so in over 50 years. Trump also declined to participate in a second debate with Harris, despite an invitation from CNN.​​ Though Trump forwent many of the media duties expected of a presidential nominee, he still made massive gains in this year’s election, particularly among young men, the demographic that was most likely to hear Trump on any of the podcasts he joined. In Arizona, one young voter even cited Trump’s appearance on Rogan as the reason he voted for the former president. 

All of this paints a pretty daunting picture for traditional media. In the weeks following the election, MSNBC’s ratings have plummeted, and cable news in general faces an uncertain future. The work of journalists and news organizations, such as Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward’s reporting on the Watergate scandal in 1973, used to have major ramifications for presidential races. Today, however, over two-thirds of Americans don’t trust cable or print outlets, and many are quickly turning to podcasts or social media sites like TikTok for their news. This is especially true for young Americans who never grew up watching CNN or reading The New York Times. Instead of reading Bernstein and Woodward, or watching Walter Cronkite, many are trusting comedians like Rogan and Von to interview the world’s most powerful people. 

While there are certainly issues with conventional media, this is a troubling development. Even though they may be well intentioned, most comedians simply aren’t equipped of holding figures like Trump accountable, something Rogan seemed to admit just two years ago. Instead of asking a substantive question over his record as president or his plans for a second term, Rogan opened his episode with Trump by talking about how the hosts of The View used to love him and proclaiming that no one in history has been attacked in such a coordinated and systematic manner. Von spent much of his podcast with Trump discussing addiction and sobriety, a very worthy issue, though not one that was directly related to Trump’s presidency or campaign. These podcasts not only gave Trump exposure to a younger demographic, but also the opportunity to avoid challenging and substantive questions over his record and his plans for the country.

Trump’s podcast circuit is likely to be indicative of how politicians approach media appearances in the future. Following her defeat, Harris has been criticized for decling an interview with Joe Rogan. As Gen Z voters make up more of the electorate, there’s a strong possibility that political candidates will appear on podcasts with greater frequency in upcoming elections while taking fewer cable news interviews. I’d say that we should hold podcasts hosts to a higher standard when they choose to interview presidential candidates, but I’m pessimistic that the likes of Rogan, Von, and others will be able to accurately challenge them.